I Love Kelowna

Empathy, Leadership and Love with Ash Simpson

• Luke Menkes Kelowna Real Estate Agent / Ash Simpson • Season 4 • Episode 242

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Episode 242 is a captivating heart-to-heart discussion with Ash Simpson, the founder of a brand new mortgage company, Insight Finance. Ash, a symbol of perseverance, opens up about his nearly two-decade-long relationship with his wife, their long journey from financial struggles to growth, and an elevated proposal that would make your heart skip a beat. He unpacks his intriguing theory on five-year growth periods for couples, and how adaptability is the glue that binds relationships in the face of change.

We discuss how accountability has played a pivotal role in sculpting Ash into the leader he is today. Ash talks about his real estate journey, the power of mentorship, the essence of intelligent risk-taking, and the importance of striking a life-work balance. We reflect on the vital importance of regularly-scheduled quality family time, his creative approach to automation and delegation, and the non-negotiables that keep him grounded amidst the whirlwind of life.

We discuss the complexities associated with real estate mortgage financing.  Ash shares his principles of sometimes playing opposite the market or trendy or conventional wisdom and his real estate investment strategy,

Ash's story is a testament to the power of empathy, strong leadership skills, and growing a dedicated fan base in whatever business you're in. 

Ash nominates Mohini Singh, Kelowna City Councillor, for a future episode. 

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NOMINATE YOURSELF, ANOTHER PERSON OR A BUSINESS TO APPEAR ON THE I LOVE KELOWNA PODCAST

Speaker 1:

We are back for episode 242 of the I love Kelowna podcast. Today I'm sitting here with Ash Simpson and we're going to talk about leadership and the connection between the psychology of sports, real estate and parenting. Both of us find these topics very interesting and I'm really excited to talk to Ash Simpson today.

Speaker 2:

Kelowna, one of the most beautiful places in the world to live, surrounded by provincial parks, pine forests, vineyards, orchards and mountains. Wouldn't it be great if there was a podcast about our love of Kelowna? Oh no, it's real. This is I Love Kelowna an interview style podcast about the fabulous and fascinating people that make up our great city and the Okanagan. Intimate conversations with entrepreneurs, executives, thought leaders, creatives and anyone who has an interesting story to tell about how they're contributing to our wonderful home. This is I Love Kelowna. And here's your host, luke J Minkus.

Speaker 1:

So, ash, thank you for coming by today. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for having me on the show. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1:

You told me when we met last week about when you came to Kelowna and the interesting story about how you've been with your wife forever and then you just recently got married. So could you tell me a little bit about that?

Speaker 3:

So actually we did that. Yeah, I'm going to correct you, it's fine. It's fine. It's actually a little known fact. So I actually haven't, we actually haven't been married, but it's kind of an interesting thing. So when we first met, we first met in Vernon and she was 17 years old, I was 19 years old and we just it was incredible Within six months we were living together and then we just started building a life together Really interesting, made a lot of mistakes that I think you know what young people do, and we racked up a lot of student loan debt and we racked up a lot of debt. We ended up in a situation that I think I'm fair to share, it's fine to share. I think we're almost like 180,000 down.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so imagine holding that on through all your 20s and you were in your 20s. Yeah, so I think we had managed to do that by the time we were 21. It was like almost a race to make life hard, and so we made a lot of bad decisions, but we just stuck with each other and it was just an incredible journey, and so I can say that year seven we got engaged and it phenomenal place, and then we went up a gondola.

Speaker 3:

Another little note thing is I'm extremely scared of heights. So going up a gondola and I've got a ring in my pocket and I'm just freaking out Like there's no saving me at this point, I don't know what I'm more scared of what I'm about to say and what I'm about to do, or this gondola ride and like having a glass bottom at the time. Oh jeez, it was a lot. So fine, we can fast forward and a lot of life and a lot of learning and a child and a house together and paying off all the debt and kind of going through all that process it was. It was an interesting journey.

Speaker 3:

I definitely wouldn't say we took the easiest road we possibly could have. We stuck by each other and stuck with each other and very little fights and just kind of like, almost like in a survival aspect. So it's, it probably felt not unlike what it feels like to a lot of people today during that time, and so it's, we just got to experience it a little bit earlier in life. So from that, yeah, so we've been together I think 18, almost 19 years. Yeah, it's amazing that she's put up with me this long and all of my antics. So it's, it's very appreciative.

Speaker 1:

So right, I have three teenage daughters and one one of them says they're dating someone. I get nervous because, you know, you see a lot of people break up and they don't make it, and one of the causes seems to be like they've changed so much over time. They didn't really know who they were or their partner was when they started dating, and that's why people break up and you guys made it, and that's pretty, pretty extraordinary, like we don't hear too many stories of that people getting together very young and lasting that long.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah. So I have a, I have a theory and this kind of only maybe only relates to just me, maybe, but I feel like we've both kind of changed almost every five years. So definitely there's a I would say my growth periods and how I've evolved over time. There's definitely like an adjustment that you almost have to make with each other and these these times that you do that it's you're almost kind of like rediscovering someone. So every time she's kind of like changed through the nature of what she's done and she's extremely successful doing what she's doing. She's currently a teacher and like.

Speaker 3:

For me, I feel like I'm on that growth pattern and like my level of success. Maybe I hold myself a little bit or maybe I judge a little bit too hard, but I feel like I've accomplished quite a bit for what I've done so far. So it's it's, it's a partnership, it's a journey and you really just have to. I think that every five years it's almost like a. It's not your reconnecting, but you just have to adapt to the new situation. So, yeah, it's, it's super cool, honestly.

Speaker 1:

I don't think you've finished the story about the gondola. So you got. You got to the top, you survived. Obviously you survived it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so kind of. So I survived it, sure, and I get to the top and I had this entire speech, sorry. So so I have this entire speech, we get to the top, and I am now being on nervous, because now I'm equally scared of how am I going to get down, because I am it's late in the evening and I'm totally willing to walk down. I'm like at this point I'm like, roll me over the edge, it's fine. No, and I get to the top. I get to this one section and it's perfect. We're overlooking glaciers and I dropped my knee and then bumble out words right, everything I had planned completely went out the window. Right, I was just was beyond a wreck. So it was. She understood what I was doing. Everyone else around us understood everything. Yeah, it was. It was a crazy moment.

Speaker 1:

Right, but she survived it.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, I'm here so.

Speaker 1:

And how was the trip back down?

Speaker 3:

So I think one of relief. So it's as that ground keeps coming closer and closer, and the fact that I accomplished the mission. At that point I was like, okay, fantastic, like we just need to like touch soil and then, after we touch soil, everything from there is going to be absolutely incredible. That's that's basically what huge relief. Oh, huge relief. And she said yes, so you're right.

Speaker 3:

It's lucky. And then, yeah, I guess, over time we just we never got married. We we just kind of made that decision of like the title necessarily doesn't matter, we're in this right.

Speaker 3:

So we just, I think at some point we might do it and we might just have like a huge party and just invite everybody, but I, I don't know, I can't tell you, I can't tell you that there's anything in me, or or if the moment she's like, okay, let's, let's do this now, fantastic, I would, I would go for it. Well, it's a wonderful story.

Speaker 1:

So you met it in Burntman. Is that where you're from?

Speaker 3:

So no, so originally I was born in Vancouver BC Children's Hospital in Burnaby and then most of my family actually lived kind of within a block radius of like Main Street. So I grew up East 55th and Main I. We kind of moved all over the place so I ended up in Creston at one time I ended up in Salmon Arm. I've lived in Surrey for a brief period of time. I've lived in Canoes for a brief period of time, and so I think like I went to high school in Salmon Arm and I graduated in Salmon Arm at SAS and then ended up in Vernon and then, with Vernon being Chantelmet, and I was actually a waiter at Pizza Hut at the time and she was a newly hired waitress, so that's, that's how that I was supposed to train her, apparently.

Speaker 3:

I did too good of a job. And then, yeah, and then we moved from there to Kelowna, so in 2007, and it was purely so that she could go to school. She knew that she wanted to be a teacher and I knew that I just didn't want to go to school. Right, so I was. It made it, it made for an easy decision, and so I went and I worked, and I worked a couple of sales jobs and did that, and she worked as a bartender and yeah.

Speaker 1:

Right, so that was 2007. That's like, yeah, she graduated, but you never left. You never left the city. You both liked it.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. So I would say like maybe we moved a little bit earlier in 2007, but I would say that we moved during, actually, I think, 2009. We actually left and went, and that was during a recession. It was the housing crisis, essentially we had and that's the last one, and so how we were affected is rent started being sky high because 2007, 2008, not unlike right now.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 3:

Move the rents to such a degree that it was just almost unaffordable for us. And so we actually moved in with her mom and so it was that here no. That was actually in Vernon. So we did that for a year and then we decided you know what we need to move back. Staying with her mom was actually incredible. It was. It was a fun time for me too.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, yeah, it's nice to have meals, yeah Right. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

That was. That was a huge benefit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would have stayed forever, to be perfectly honest, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a home cook meals and cheaper rent. Yeah, I mean that you know, when people are facing financial anxiety, to have a mom to cook for you, it's like it's incredible. Oh, it takes a lot of stress.

Speaker 3:

What? What a massive advantage. So, so that that helped us so much. And then we moved back.

Speaker 3:

I I ended up working at visions for a very short few electronics, yeah, yeah. So I've worked future shop, visions, all sorts of different places, and so I'm working there and I just I don't know it's I was starting a management road there and just thinking, you know what, I kind of want to do something more, but I want to take some skills and learn them. And so what happened is I, I just decided, you know what, I'm going to take an interview and figured out that instead of with the person I interviewed with, instead of actually being the employee, I was like you know what, what can I just be the boss, right, and so, and so it was kind of almost an arrogant play, I think at the time. And I, just I was like you know what? I think I can do this.

Speaker 3:

And so I went out and I created a business it was called sell works and we did cell phone repair and we it was a very exciting time, very challenging. I would say that the first three years I didn't make any money doing it. In fact, I feel like I gave away a lot of money, right. My, my employees were absolutely incredible. Everybody was more than more than in it. I had kind of two business partners through the process and even as such it was, it was such a learning experience that it allowed me to have a almost a groundwork from which to build from, because I learned a lot of mistakes, right, but not necessarily what not to do, but maybe what I should learn more of.

Speaker 1:

Right. So what sort of things were you learning? Was it how to deal with people, how to hire people and fire people, finances, dealing with the math of the business, like what? What sorts of things?

Speaker 3:

So I think I think the understanding principles of because business is so vague, when you say like hey, like I do, I'm in business or I'm an entrepreneur, okay, right, what does that even mean? There are. There are many different ways to accentuate and kind of understand what those things kind of become. And so for me, I think I started understanding that the leadership component of it was something I was really good at. So I started understanding that I can actually motivate employees and do it in such a way that it would be I'd almost be a relatable figure to them. I'm not saying I'm like necessarily like the best friend, but I would say that we would kind of go through this journey together and then we would find a common goal, or I'd find a common goal that we can kind of play off of, and then that allows for a purpose. And if somebody has a purpose, it's just it's, it's so nice. If we're all fighting for the same thing, for the, for the hopefully the same result, then we're all taking the same wins and we're all taking the same losses.

Speaker 3:

I learned very early that accountability is a massive key to leadership, and it's because I made so many mistakes in accountability that it allowed me to understand that you know what this is. Sometimes the wins need to be someone else's wins and, like the losses always have to be mine, and so it was understanding that process and understanding like what I could provide in that instance really to help someone feel safe, like they were going to be taken care of. It was. It was an absolutely massive lesson. Yeah, definitely through that time. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

When I think back on all the people I've worked for and the ones who were willing to take accountability, then that was an excellent time and that I could talk to. They would hold me accountable, but they would also be willing to teach me and answer questions and set a good example themselves, like I've worked for people who just didn't want to work, like they were lazy, and then they would be upset if I didn't do what I was supposed to do. Right, and so that to me I can totally relate to that. Like when I think, like my current situation, actually the person who runs the company that I work for is a great guy. He works hard and he doesn't brag about stuff that he's gonna do and never does. He takes accountability and it's a very respectful you know situation.

Speaker 3:

And what you just touched on too is something where this also kind of gets lost in the business eco-spirits. Like you can go to school, you can have a lot of great ideas, you can attempt to implement them, but unless you kind of go all in and actually go through the execution stage of it. Like I mentor a lot of like young business professionals that are kind of coming up in the world, and then these business professionals the cool thing with it is they're all at kind of different stages of where they are.

Speaker 3:

And so some are extremely successful. Some are figuring out distribution, some are going through like their, through their lens, their problems. But I look at it and I go you know what you know. This is kind of first world problems here. Like you're still making margins here. Or then you have another individual who, like, is struggling to find clients but has, like, the perfect product, and so it's, how do you market that product out? And in this case it's a service. And so it's one of those interesting components of you watch both parties, even though there are different stages of the career, go through the same level of self-doubt, and you, you watch them. And one of the things that makes the difference 100% is the execution. So coming up with a million different ideas, that's great. But if you can actually execute on one of those ideas and kind of take it to the very end, amazing Right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, whether it fails or like wins or whatever, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1:

Right. What's it? 2017 or 2018, when you first started to get into mortgages and the real estate business, or how did that come about?

Speaker 3:

Oh, I've been so very lucky. Um, this is so yeah, so, essentially in, I think, 2017, I was kind of debating it, but I had a good mentor, and so this mentor actually was my mortgage broker, and she wasn't a mentor then, but what she did was we would sit in an office, me and my wife, and we would be so far away from purchasing a place, right, instead of just being like, okay, get out, she was like okay, no, no, sit down, let's, let's go over it, let's run credits, let's figure this out, figure this out. This is how we would game it and this is how we would do it. And I'm like, okay, fantastic. So we walked away with a strategy and a plan. Now, at the time, I would say that I was almost dejected. Like, at that point, I was like, oh, like I don't think we're ever going to do this, but my wife being my wife was like oh yeah, like this is, we're going to make this happen.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

And so I you know what, just leaving it in her hands was more than enough for the both of us on that one, and I was like, oh, so thankful. And so I understand like, especially when I talk to, like current clients and first time home buyers, oh, I know that feeling all too well. And so the I want to say, over the course of almost six years, every time she would stay in contact and she did a great job of staying in contact and we would reach out to her and be like okay, what's our situation like now? She was just like you know what, maybe you should try this.

Speaker 1:

Right, I was like oh, like, what sort of things like?

Speaker 3:

like, like, like I don't know what, I don't know what she picked up on, but I think she liked the way maybe I talk or I don't know what she, what she was like try this, try the try the mortgage broker business. And so I was like you know what, like I don't know, and at first I was like no, there's no way.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

You know what that's? That real estate game, that's for other people, that's not me. And then I just just over time, it's almost like I was working corporate, a corporate job, and I just it just didn't give me the satisfaction. And I, my son was uh. So my son is nine now, and so after he was born, I knew that I wanted to spend more time with him, and so I was like, well, like me being away from like nine to five, and then I have to prepare an hour in advance in both sides, and so like I would see him a little bit in the morning a little bit at night, but really like his bedtime would be seven.

Speaker 3:

So I'd be like, well, this is not much of a life. So I came to the conclusion of like, okay, I need to change something here and take a risk. So my lovely wife said, sure, let's, let's do it, you can, you can go ahead and try. And so I did and I put everything I possibly could into it so that, uh, I passed my course January of 2019. So I would be year five in and I've been lucky enough to be in different magazines, speak for CBC.

Speaker 3:

I've been, uh, I've gone on company trips to Hawaii, which was an incredible trip. I'm like, I think, I think, the year that I went to Hawaii, I must have, uh, I must have cost the company more than they made off me. I almost promised it. It's actually, it's actually hilarious to me. So, so like, and that's just how much, uh, that company uh, 100% valued its people. So huge, uh, huge props, uh to tango on that one. So, yeah, no, I uh, I went through a period where I uh, just, there's definitely a period where I was learning and I and I kept that same mentor throughout the process, and then I changed, uh, I almost kind of changed up my thinking and my Furbiage and just went all in. I learned as much as I could in a very short period of time, and I think there was. You know, originally I did it for extra time with my son, but I found that the more I put in, the more I was going to get out.

Speaker 3:

And so if I led with empathy with clients, if I um led with more of a transparent uh, completely upfront approach, with realtors if I and realtor partners and and referral partners and those individuals, and then if I just led from a point of um, almost kindness, and showing that and and and keeping, and almost trying to find value for somebody else and trying to provide that for them, and I, it, it's, it's worked wonders for me. It's helped me in space that I can't even describe.

Speaker 1:

So I can uh think of a few things from your mentor that I think are really important If someone's going to choose any sort of career. One was um, she was very empathetic with you and patient with you. I know some professionals in sales or real estate or mortgages can be like I really don't have time to deal with you because you're not qualified to make this purchase. Rather than educating the client, she's very patient with you and uh, apparently taught you a lot. So I'm sure that influenced your, your career, like you emulated that. And the other thing was um, you mentioned once you decided to do it, you poured all your energy into it, and that is huge. Like, if you want to be good at something, you really got to commit to it. You have to get into it and enjoy the learning and the process and learning everything you can.

Speaker 3:

Right, yeah, the the roller coaster of those first two years. I would say, uh, it was just a roller coaster of emotions. It had nothing to do with, um, like a success meter at all of any kind. It was just, I constantly felt like I was failing most of the time. But then I had these guiding principles that I wanted to stand by the entire time, and so I knew that, if I was going to find my path and carve out my niche in this, that I was going to do it my way Right, and I wasn't going to, uh, look at how everyone else was accomplishing success. I was going to look at how I could make that and how I could do it without, um, giving up any piece of me. I didn't. I didn't want to. I didn't want to pretend to be anything else.

Speaker 3:

I wanted to just be me throughout the entire process and it's. It was one of those things where, uh, I think a lot of soul searching. I think I felt in the beginning like it held me back, but more so, it probably helped me more than anything.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So I think being your authentic self is is so hard and to guide your principle by, but once you do it, you make a vast decision to allow for success to happen. With the right people, the right clients, the right referral partners, Everything comes together.

Speaker 1:

Right? Well, I'd like to ask you a little bit about that. We touched on it a couple of weeks ago, uh, when we met and, um, I, I can say to anyone listening like this is obviously a great formula for success, because after spending about an hour with you, I decided this is the person I want to go to If I need advice on a mortgage situation or have a client that needs a mortgage. Um, I, I concluded that and I have my reasons, but I'd like to explore that a little bit. About um, what are some of the things that you, as you were learning, you decided to do differently than the norm, or that?

Speaker 1:

I don't think you're really even comparing yourself to other people. At a certain point, they were kind of like this is me, I want to enhance my good qualities. No-transcript business person I want to be. I want to talk a little bit about that. So one of the things she told me that was amazing was your schedule and how you reworked that so you could get a lot of time with your son quality time with your son.

Speaker 3:

I have okay. So schedule-wise I think I've tried a lot of different things, so I've had 15 minute blocks that I had to do at one time. Somehow I ended up in a state where I was running like five different startup companies at one time.

Speaker 3:

I had a marketing company at one time that was actually decently successful. That in January of this year. I was like you know what? I need to go all in on this mortgage thing and we'll talk about the insight mortgage later but that piece of scheduling has been such a struggle and such a difficult thing because you, if you put yourself in a lot of different situations, running those levers and trying to figure out where your time comes in, one of the easiest things to sacrifice and this sounds absolutely awful but it seems like it's always family- and so that family lever I always have to watch constantly because that's the one that it almost instantly gets taken away from.

Speaker 3:

So, in doing so, how I schedule things now is I try to automate as much of my process as possible. Or, like I have an incredible underwriter now who's like I had one before. That was good, absolutely great, and she was starting and making it through the business and like within a short period of time she became extremely good. But the one that I have right now has like over 25 years, almost 30 years of experience, and she's worked for lenders.

Speaker 3:

And so she sees things through a different lens than even I do, or the client can, which allows for so much time to be freed. So, yes, it's one of those things where you maybe pay handsomely for these things, but it's worth it because of what it gives you and what it gives back, it gives back to the client, it gives back to the referral partners, it gives back to my family.

Speaker 3:

So freeing up that time is absolutely massive. So when you have two people working in a file versus just one, it just oh, it's so much easier and you can throw ideas at and you get there so much faster. I think the answer that what I was referring to when we spoke for coffee and for the record, it wasn't an hour, that was like almost two and a half hours. That's true.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, an hour, when it was just the two of us, I think.

Speaker 3:

So the first time in the minutes.

Speaker 1:

We had another person.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, I'm not calling you out, I'm just saying I was like that was a long meeting, no, and I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1:

But I think the last hour was where I was asking more personal, direct questions. We were kind of just talking about real estate in general and touching on parts of your life, but I felt like our deeper conversation was the last hour. But yeah, it was like two and a half hours.

Speaker 3:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and so kind of how I do things now and it seems insane, but I just I have a short calendar and I try to only create like one or two appointments in a day, max, and those are just usually referral partners of that sort of thing. All of my clients I talk to immediately, and so I have this saying where I try not to lose a day, and so if I schedule an appointment with my client or somebody that comes in and it's like two or three days in advance, well then it just becomes a nightmare, you're losing days and when you lose days and something's live or for the other individual, you're just creating friction points that you don't need to.

Speaker 3:

So just picking up the phone and not being afraid to just call and kind of get things done right away, that's huge and that's usually helpful and it's helpful for them, it's helpful for me and it kind of allows us to go through. When I'm scheduling time, I try to make sure that every day I'm picking up my son. So what I do is I have some blocks that are completely laid out. So, for instance, the morning I wake up pretty early, roughly 435 in the morning. I don't necessarily advise it, but I do it, and my son also wakes up roughly around the same time. So we just sit and giggle and watch cartoons and it's absolutely incredible. We'll watch Minecraft videos.

Speaker 1:

I've seen more Minecraft videos and I think I can even Are those the dudes that play it and they're commenting with their streaming?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, 100%, and so that's on YouTube and he just loves it, and we just sit there and we laugh and giggle at these things, because it's all these made up stories that kind of come up from it, so it's fun. And then my son gets off school at 2.30. And so it's always been a non-negotiable for me and then I am the one who picks them up, and so at 2.30, I'm there. Then what happens is we just go through our walk home, and through the walk home we just giggle and have fun, we make up jokes.

Speaker 1:

And.

Speaker 3:

I would say that in the beginning, when he was like 5 or 6, these weren't very sufficient and he was sophisticated. Right Now, this man is much funnier than I am, so he's had a lot of years of practice. I apparently need to up my game.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so yeah, that's really wonderful. I find if I get up early, my day is so much more productive Because there's important things that we don't really feel are urgent things. Like you said, family Well, I can see them tomorrow. I'm really busy today. I'll talk to them tomorrow, and then tomorrow becomes the next day, and so on and so on. But early the phone's not ringing, nobody's looking for me. I can do what's important during those hours without distraction.

Speaker 3:

And I think you have to choose what's important. So for me, I just chose him and my wife as being the most important things in that moment and that's the time I can give to them. In my wife's case, in the morning it's letting her sleep. That's probably the best thing I can give to her at that moment, but usually after he's in bed, so like 7.30, 8.00, or whatever, and that's our time, like we can hang out, and so we don't do enough dates. I'm probably definitely like there's a lot that I can do better, for sure in this, and so it's one of those things where I need to be better. But in the current moment, yeah, it's a system that currently works.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. So tell us about your philosophy when it comes to mortgages and why you do the things the way you do. So you mentioned you'll call people right away if there's a new client. You want to figure out the situation and just be honest about their situation and have that conversation immediately.

Speaker 3:

So I think it kind of comes down to almost a better story about how I started and how I started to learn that I need to kind of do things my way. So when I first started as a mortgage broker, I studied everybody else. There were podcasts I could go on to, there were other people I would take out for coffee, other brokers, and I thought I was learning and I was like, ok, great, and I was getting everything from within the lens. But one of the things from being an entrepreneur and basically having success and failures in business is I knew that the lens I needed was my clients and, from the referral side of things, where am I going to get my clients from? And so I learned very early on that I needed to look outside the bubble and look in rather than just be in the bubble and be like, oh, things are fine, I kept getting this.

Speaker 3:

So I'm in my office and I kept getting this pamphlet from this realtor and I was like, ok, no problem, I get it once. And I'm in the office every single day and because I'm taking everything super seriously and working my 10-hour days, and I get this pamphlet again like a week later, and I get it again a week later and I almost had this arrogant text that I sent and I remember it so well, where I was like, hey well, you keep sending me pamphlets, so we might as well meet. I bet you she still has that. I bet she still has that text. One day this is going to get used against me, so I might as well just come out with it. And so yeah, so we ended up going for coffee and I didn't do my due diligence and I didn't do research on her.

Speaker 3:

I just assumed that who I was going to meet was somebody who was newer. I didn't know what I was going to come up against. And so I met with this individual and it was the first time. I think within the first two minutes, this person mentioned that they had two assistants and I was like, oh no, what have I done? And so I'm like, oh. So I came in here with ego and pride and arrogance, and I came in here with everything I shouldn't have, and I remember her asking me, and the exact words were basically hey, obviously this isn't a Tinder date, so why am I here?

Speaker 1:

She said that to you. That's what she was very direct.

Speaker 3:

So I was like, oh no. And so I end up in the situation where I'm like OK, think, think, think. I was like Winnie the Pooh, think Ash, think Ash. And so we came to in an instant. I came to this one conclusion. I was like OK. I was like OK, well, obviously I brought you here, so I just wanted to know, what is it you dislike about mortgage brokers?

Speaker 1:

And then and it's a great question. Oh, that's an incredible question.

Speaker 3:

It got me out of it immediately, and so I was like, oh, thank you. And so what happened is that blossomed a relationship that I didn't expect to happen, and she explained, over the course of probably a good half hour this is how I would do things, this is whatever. And the moment I dropped the ego and the arrogance and I started acting more like my authentic self, like more of the curious wanderer, less of the person who's trying to assert dominance of any kind or be the expert all the time.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would be the most unlikely expert. It would have taken 10 seconds to suss me out at that time. So I had no business pretending like I knew anything. And so she was so kind and gracious and allowed, just, gave me like little tits, bits and everything. And so we part ways and I remember I went into my truck at the time and I furiously wrote down everything she said. And then I started taking that exact same thing and I would take other realtors out and the first question I would ask them what do you hate about brokers? And then they would talk for an hour straight.

Speaker 3:

And I'd be like, wow, there's a lot of things you don't like, and so it was actually super interesting. So it allowed me to kind of reverse engineer my path and I started going OK, well, I like to be a guy who provides value and I understand that this is a very serious game, especially when you're like we have liabilities, we're under professional liability, like we have to make sure that we do things right, so we can't necessarily do things through the bare minimum. And so what I decided was I wasn't going to do that and I just wrote everything down. I almost put it all together and I still have the note pad that I put it all together in and it was great. It allowed me to make decisions with better clarity, looking from the outside in than any other time. So that, right there, probably changed the direction of my career in an instant.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing. Yeah, I love that story and you still work together to this day.

Speaker 3:

To this day, absolutely, and it's a dream. We've had plenty of clients that have come to both of us being like how are you to not having your own businesses together or whatever? They can't understand that we're actually two separate human beings. It feels like a team, and so that team environment is something that I've had with other realtors as well and since then, and it's really like it's kind of where the magic is, when you can look into it and you can bring the client in behind the scenes and you can take the realtor in with you and you have the mortgage broker and you have the lawyer and you have the appraiser and everybody kind of involved, and everybody understands that we all have the same goal and so if we can see it like it's a team game, oh, it changes. It changes the dynamic immediately Now for that client and for that realtor and for everybody. It's like we're all together.

Speaker 1:

That communication is so crucial and I can't remember many times going into meetings like that. I'm like they're going to think I'm stupid, so I've got to pretend that I'm more knowledgeable than I necessarily am, and I really started to progress when I just started to ask questions. Like you said, the curious wanderer right. So I want to ask you the same question what is it that you hate about real estate agents? And maybe that's not the way you would phrase it today no, no and that's not, but that's a good question.

Speaker 3:

So, truly, truly and this is something that drives me absolutely nuts, and anybody that does this needs to take this to heart. I can smell, not smell, but I can hear realtor voice in a second, so your clients can too.

Speaker 1:

Everybody can Like Ronnie Salesman, like just yeah.

Speaker 3:

If it just sounds like this is like a new voice that you use just for this topic, just to sound professional or just to sound, whatever I get it and I understand why. But, you know, having that little bit of relatability. Everyone's human, we all make mistakes, we all have flaws. I just, if my clients can be vulnerable with me, why can't I be vulnerable with them Absolutely? So I'm asking them to give up their financials, like one of the most personal pieces of their lives, and normally they keep these secret from everyone.

Speaker 3:

They don't want their parents to see it. They don't want their neighbors to see it, their best friends to see it, but I get to see it. So if they're vulnerable, I should be as well. If, from a realtor standpoint, I think it's the same subject and a lot of people do this well and I just I think maybe it's a small subsection, but yeah, it's an interesting thing. And you know what, if I get flamed or roasted for it? Whatever, I'll die by it, no problem.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you like I think you told me you kind of limit, like you're not trying to deal with every single real estate agent in the Okanagan. You have a core that you love to work with and it's really efficient because you understand each other and they're ethical people and they're really great to work with.

Speaker 1:

Like the person you just described. So just to expand on that last question, a little bit like what is it that you find attractive in a real estate agent and what is it that you find annoying and that you're like maybe this person's not gonna be a good fit for me as a mortgage broker.

Speaker 3:

It really honestly comes down to the vulnerability, the ego, the pride, understanding that if we drop that component of it and work together, it creates a better experience for everyone around us, and treating it truly like a team and understanding what that even means.

Speaker 3:

It's for some it's tough, and I get that, and life sends us in many different directions and we get to experience many different things, and so, from my lens it's, I would way rather work with somebody again and again, and again, if I know that that experience is gonna be an A plus experience and, even if something feels like it's falling apart just a little bit, that we can work together to figure it out. I have such good relationships with some realtors that will literally be like hey, ash, this whole thing collapsed, but then I solved it last second, just so you know, I just wanted you to know that this was the situation and I'm like, oh, wow, okay great.

Speaker 3:

Like you didn't even have to tell me I never would have known, but it's good to know that you have a pulse on it.

Speaker 1:

This is what's happened.

Speaker 3:

And I almost feel guilty that I didn't even know. So it's those things. There's plenty of times when, like I've been in a situation where there's maybe something going on that just doesn't sit quite right with the listing or with whatever.

Speaker 3:

And then like brought in like the realtor with a, with another lawyer, and we've kind of just all kind of disgusted together and been like okay, like how do we advise the client? How do we, how do we actually do this in such a way that we are helping and not hindering? And so it's about really treating it like it's a teamwork environment and so yeah, and this is this is one of those things where it's like you're not gonna get along with everybody.

Speaker 3:

It just naturally isn't gonna happen, and so I'd like to think I'm likable, but it's. There's plenty of people out there, I'm sure, that are like ooh, like Ash, I wouldn't use him.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's different styles too right.

Speaker 3:

It's personality types and yeah, if you want the super professional mortgage broker, that is just gonna just get it done and doesn't wanna joke around. I'm probably not your guy.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

I'd rather understand that. Yes, there is a very serious like notion to what we do, but it doesn't have to be stressful. It can be fun.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

Like it's amazing when it is fun, and so it's just that category of it really.

Speaker 1:

Well, buying a home is one of the most stressful things people go through, so one of the most exciting things people do, especially if it goes well and smoothly. And people have a lot of anxiety around it, which is completely understandable. Sometimes I forget that, like, if you do a ton of deals and people are the same as we are, they don't wanna come across as unknowledgeable or stupid, so they kind of will sugarcoat things and they're maybe suffering from a ton of anxiety. And what are some of the things like we could tell the public that, like you've learned I've learned that they don't really understand about the real estate process and what an agent does and what a mortgage broker does and what the bank does. And what are some of the things you've learned? Like people are like oh, I never knew that before. Like in your first conversation with that agent, you were taking notes as soon as you got to your truck and you learned so much by asking questions Like what are some of the things that would surprise a lot of people if they knew?

Speaker 3:

Well, there's a lot of technical things that are maybe like gray areas that a lot of people don't understand. So, for instance, let's say you have a commitment that you get sent from the bank, you've signed the commitment, everything looks like it's all good. There's, like there's plenty of realtors that I've had to educate and plenty of individuals I've had to educate. That whole commitment that's there is a commitment, but that lender can actually pull out. So at the 11th hour they can run your credit, find out oh, you just bought two trucks. Okay, well, there's no longer fits. So it seems like a basic, but it actually. It actually happened to me. So, 100%. I had a client who, luckily, was a very wealthy individual and was able to pull this off, but he literally bought a truck the day after we signed.

Speaker 1:

You got the approval.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, like literally the day after, and I was like what are you, what are you doing? And he went and he actually drove to my house to show me the truck that he purchased and I was like what are you thinking?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so we can change. Even if you get like a final approval, it's still subject to you behaving until you get to the completion.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you actually want to behave all the way up to 30 days after I would say, yeah, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:

What could happen if you bought a truck you couldn't really afford like a week after?

Speaker 3:

Yes, so it's. I've never seen it before, but there was a horror story read that happened in the East where a lender actually pulled out after the signing because the whole loan process changed essentially, and so I don't know if that would actually I don't know if I'd actually ever see that occur, but that's just. It's just an interesting thing that I now tell people just you know what For that first, like until you sign up the lawyers, and maybe just wait 30 days after that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Let all the money clear, let everybody just intake everything, just give it time and then from there, like then make your decision. So like that's a good one. I think another one that's would shock a lot of individuals is that when you take a home equity line of credit, those aren't, those aren't like it's the equivalent of a mortgage as it's a charge on title, but that charge on title could get called at any time and most individuals do not know that. It's an interesting thing. So if you got $150,000 on a lot of credit like it's, I'm not saying it would happen, but there are stories where it does.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and rates can change oh. Right, you might qualify last year, but now they're like this is too expensive for you.

Speaker 3:

Looking at almost the change in the last couple of years, luke, like it's amazing. I think there was definitely an expectation that rates wouldn't stay the same, but I don't think I've had to go on CBC radio a couple of times for this. The expectation versus the reality of what happened were two totally different things. And then, yeah so not to get technical, but at that time there was a gentleman who's still the head of the bank of Canada, tiff Macklam, during, I think, 2021, basically said hey, don't worry, we won't even operates by a percentage, like, don't worry, you're good.

Speaker 3:

Rates are gonna stay this low for a long time.

Speaker 1:

So they took a variable mortgage, is that?

Speaker 3:

No, no, no.

Speaker 1:

Tiff is the head of the bank of Canada.

Speaker 3:

So no. So what happened is? Tiff said, okay, rates are gonna stay the same. And he's, him and his board are in charge of the bank of Canada overnight rate. And so what happened is that rate just started jumping and jumping, and jumping. So it's like if from a government standpoint, if you tell the public one thing, then it makes them feel safe.

Speaker 1:

And then suddenly, when that whole, thing changes.

Speaker 3:

Well then, what did that do? That created a lot of turmoil.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

Created a lot of animosity. A lot of people are on the edge. A lot of investors have to get rid of their homes. It up to rent. It did Like the. What that change in interest rate did to our society is absolutely incredible. It basically created an affordability crisis and with housing not dropping, only staying stable, it still makes it so interesting Like it's actually. It's a very hard road if you're a first time home buyer today.

Speaker 1:

Do you think it was people's expectations that were dashed that really like what? Do you think the reason is that they said this? Is that their inability to predict the future, or was it a political thing? They were kind of sugarcoating the inflationary situation so that Trudeau could get reelected, or what? How did that happen?

Speaker 3:

To be perfectly honest, I'm an overly hopeful individual so maybe more so than needed and so I would never look at it from a lens of possible nefarious means or from a political strategy component. I would, however, look at it from, maybe, the facts given at the time. I believe that people are making the best decision with what they have at the time, but I also believe that in that instance, when you print that much money, you have something called an M2 money supply. When that creeps up, you just have so much money in the market that it just automatically and you have a global supply shortage. Inflation is gonna happen and, to make matters worse, I think housing maybe shouldn't have been as low as it was at the time in terms of rates. So I think that when that adjustment started happening, instead of keeping it low, they should have just started quarter pointing up rather than making it a full point or a half point and just basically shocking the market, yeah, so.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think that's the other contrarian like me, in the sense that see what the trend is. There's a great philosopher, but he's actually an economist. His name is Robert Prakter and he there was a writer back in the 1920s and 30s called Eliot and he came up with the Eliot wave concept, and the theory is that humans tend to we can get pretty good at projecting trends, like we see a trend, we observe a trend and we can project it forward, but interest rates in the economy and prices don't really go in a straight line. They go in a wave pattern. They go up, they go down and crashes happen when the last guy has put his last nickel in, because we always have sellers but we don't always have buyers, and so he's.

Speaker 1:

He made the comment like if you're in Vegas and you're going there to play, you know, slot machines or blackjack, and your cab driver is talking about his real estate portfolio, it's not an insult on him, but it means that everybody has put all the money they have into real estate. It can only go one direction, which is down, and it's just a kind of a cruel thing about human nature. When everybody is super overconfident, there's no more buyers left because everybody's already bought, and that's the time you should be looking at reducing debt and scaling back. And even classical trained economists have this tendency. Things are great. There's no reason they won't be great tomorrow, because they've been great for three years, so tomorrow should be exactly the same.

Speaker 3:

So, and I kind of I actually kind of agree with this because I have a little bit of a philosophy where I always try to play almost the opposite of markets.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

So where interest rates are high, the there's an affordability crisis, for sure, and it's hard to purchase. But if you have the ability to purchase, a lot of those people put everything on the sideline. Yes, where I don't Right, so I look at it as this is my time to purchase, and so putting my money where my mouth is. I purchased a full duplex in Rutland that closed on July 3rd, and so it's one of those things where it's like, if I see bidding wars happen, maybe that's not the best time.

Speaker 1:

That's right.

Speaker 3:

But if I have an opportunity to kind of navigate and kind of actually choose, maybe the decision I'm going to make is not going to be an emotional one. It'll be a more of a strategic one.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that I can play with.

Speaker 3:

I think it would work the same in any market. So if it's, if it's vehicles and vehicles are suddenly there's a shortage and you just know that you'd like everyone is like going is you got a year before you're going to get your next vehicle, but you order it today, I kind of see how that would create almost a trend for somebody where they're like oh, I better get this now.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

Or else I'll miss out, and so that fear of missing out can kind of kick in. But I look at it more so like if that's what's happening, maybe I should just hold off, think about buying a used vehicle or think about buying something for now. So it's been. It's an interesting way to view a market and it doesn't always work. So, buyer beware, don't make investments decisions based on me. But it's worked out well for me and so like I'm basically a product of really good mentorship and so that is something that was taught to me. That's not something I came up with.

Speaker 1:

It's really hard for even very, very intelligent people with a lot of experience to take the emotion out of a situation in a financial market, and I agree with you there is a lot of opportunity. Right now. We don't know what the future holds, but when people are a little bit nervous and thinking about downsizing and trying to get rid of real estate, there's opportunities to buy if you're positioned to do so when we are in the Okanagan and so we're such an advantageous situation, the historical average on the math that I did.

Speaker 3:

So anyone out there if they want to actually like do better math than I did, you know what have at her. But I came up with. If you include all the way to like 1979 and 1980, and you remove all the years that were the tumultuous COVID years where everything basically doubled, I came up with a number of 3.8% as a historical average. Year over year is what the equity increase has been. So that is a massive number since that time. And so if you know that there's a possibility or a very high chance that if you purchase a home that you will get a 3.8% equity increase on it, that's amazing Because most people don't understand the compounding effect that that could have. So I did this math earlier today and it's kind of scary math and so, if it is accurate, we did a home that was, I think, 400,000, it might have been 350 or 400,000. This is what I did literally earlier today and then we put that 3.8% in, compounded it over 10 years and that number became 500,000.

Speaker 3:

And so then if that equity increase over 10 years is 100,000, that's not bad.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

Like. That means you're probably making money. Now, if we here's where, don't follow my investment advice. There might be a period of time when supply catches up. It doesn't look like it right now.

Speaker 3:

And it doesn't seem like municipalities would have to change and there'd be a lot of. There'd have to be a lot of federal programs and a lot more streamlining of development permits to even make that occur. But let's assume that all of those things happen. The perfect storm happens Suddenly, there's an excess supply of housing. Well then, that increase is not going to exist. So I would say that at the current moment, I think there's a huge opportunity and I think taking advantage of that opportunity would be very useful, I think, for an individual that's trying to build a future, and if they can make it happen, that would be how you do it.

Speaker 1:

So, it's and you're gonna guide them to make sure they have enough down payment, that they're not paying too much, that they're going to qualify for this. But the qualification process is really a check on, like I noticed myself, and a lot of people get a little bit shocked when they see a decline. They're like, well, I thought I could afford this, but the people underwriting it don't think so.

Speaker 3:

I have a wonderful story where it took me two and a half years with one client that just I've never seen people try so hard Like they. Just it was very similar to mine where, like the, the husband in this situation was just like oh, whatever, like like almost felt dejected and almost felt like I did when we, when we went and we created the strategy and created the plan, but the wife was like no, we're gonna make this happen.

Speaker 3:

Right, and then we got closer and then he started seeing like hope and he's like, okay, he's on board. And then suddenly it's like it's like a year and a half we must have had, I think, like seven declines.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

Can you imagine, yeah, like so we would go through one and then the first one hit hard, and then the third one still hit hard and the fifth one still hit hard, but the time you got to the seventh one they were like whatever it really kind of came down to. It is like it was almost like the game kept changing for them, and every time we submitted it we thought we had fixed all of the issues that we were supposed to fix and then we'd find a new like. It's almost like an escape room.

Speaker 3:

We'd like we get out of the escape room and be like, okay, great, we got everything. And then we hit the next stage and it's like hold on, why are we in another escape room? And so. And so we constantly failed this escape room and like at first I think I think I remember the third or fourth one I like I had another broker. Look at everything. I was like, look, am I just bad? Like is this what's happening right now? And so like, should I just be hanging up my skates at this moment? No, it was just. It was wild, different things that occurred, and it just it just so happened that the first lender that we went to originally ended up being the seventh lender that allowed them to get the, to get the place.

Speaker 1:

Well, and it just oh, when that happened, the tears how much time went by from the first of the seven two and a half years. Two and a half years, Wow. Was it a case of like? Should they have Try to buy something less expensive, or what?

Speaker 3:

No, so in this moment it was kind of a it was a bankruptcy situation with some debt payouts, and it was a very different um some rules that changed.

Speaker 1:

A complicate yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, some rules that changed the complicated things that that happened in the meantime. So it was just, it was almost like uh as that, uh, as they get closer and as, like you, you get over the old threshold that's required. But suddenly the threshold has moved over a little bit like no yeah how is this possible, right, so it just. It became disheartening, I think, on everyone. But it was, uh, it was a team game. It was the same realtor, it was the uh, same mortgage broker, me.

Speaker 3:

It was the same clients, we use the same realtor, like we used. We created a team environment out of it that actually made it believe it or not. It was actually like a joyful experience at the end and it was a like going through the process. Yeah, there's some disheartening moments, definitely, and it affected me a hundred percent because I tend to somehow get emotionally, uh, involved in, like, the client aspect. If, if I'm purchasing something for me, there's zero emotion, I'm like I'm like ready to go to war almost, and then, but if it's oh, if it's a client, I just I get emotionally involved and so and I know that it's bad, but I just do it every time and so I kind of feel their pain.

Speaker 3:

A little bit even though I shouldn't.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

And it's the, it's my empathy I almost go too far over to one inch. So when the decline happens I'm like, oh, it feels like I just got to climb Right. So so it's it's like declines do happen. But other things that I've learned over the over time is to kind of under promise and over deliver and sometimes, uh, at that time of being a broker I kind of was like I could have changed my process to be better for that, so I could have prepared them way better for what was going to occur, right, but I at that time was so hopeful that these would just continually go through.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

And then I learned over time that maybe I should start strategizing this one a little bit better, and so it's. It's kind of how I've um, evolved over time. I've I've learned to be a better broker, and I think it's one of those things where, over periods of time, you kind of need to be I uh and I know I'm talking around here but, um, there was one uh broker I remember talking to and I explained it. Like every six months it's like I would look back at the guy that was there six months ago and be like, well, that guy knew nothing, right, and it's strange. So I'm, I'm in year five, like uh, heading into year six, and I feel the exact same way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

I feel like I look back six months ago and be like wow, that guy was right, he had a lot to learn.

Speaker 1:

Still, yeah, and I think what you said a while ago about just being human, being vulnerable, being empathetic uh, to me, that's really the key to repeat business and referral business is not so much like, uh, they had a nice time, but they, they trust you, they know that you're doing everything you can and that you understand their situation top to bottom. They wouldn't even think of calling somebody else the next time.

Speaker 3:

So you couldn't be more right.

Speaker 3:

Um, the general consensus is, I would say, on my business, when I really look into the numbers and I look at everything, um, and it's, it's honestly, it's from having businesses prior.

Speaker 3:

It's you're trying to almost create a fan base, like you want people to absolutely rave about you you really do, and so the bulk majority do just that and it's just led to more clients and more clients and more clients.

Speaker 3:

And it actually has made it so that, like advertising, I've had to do very little of because my business has naturally grown from that point of view. And then it's nice because it's like I've had realtors reach out and be like, hey, we really want to work with you and me be like, okay, well, let's see what we can work together on, but it's it's having that capacity and having that understanding of like, maybe this isn't the right fit, uh, because, and and as much as you can provide me an excess amount, um, and we can ride off into the sunset together. Sure, this isn't about getting rich. This is about helping people and maybe taking that sacrifice today to allow for that system and process and underlying principle of just being empathetic towards everyone and actually understanding, uh, and doing just a great job. Yeah, um, that's more important, yeah, so yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

It makes it worth getting up and and and the time with your son is probably way less stressful. When you know you're doing that kind of job for your people, you're not worried about Jesus, what's going to happen at nine o'clock when that person calls me, like I mean, I was like that when I was younger, you know I was always like trying to put out fires and and uh avoid situations and just being able to deal with people on that level has made my life so much better, my time with my kids so much better and business more productive.

Speaker 3:

I used to get so nervous delivering bad news. I don't anymore. It's it's a strange thing because it's it's almost like I've learned to, um, just confront it and be upfront with absolutely everything. I don't hide anything.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Like I'm totally okay with like looking at someone's finances, seeing that they're like a hundred grand a debt, or even five grand a debt, and then they're like, oh, I'm so embarrassed I'll be like, listen, like at one time I was like 21 with $180,000 in debt. You have nothing, yeah. And so your path or your road here, uh, I know is like very serious to you, but you can do this.

Speaker 3:

And so, I think, providing that hope, um, and then, like I would say that there's a leadership component to it too. So it's, it's almost providing that leadership to your clients, as well as, uh, your staff and as well as, uh, the referral partners and everybody around you, and, um, just making sure that everyone understands that it's a team game, that this is. We're all humans. We're all fallible, like we can all make mistakes, so we just roll with the punches and we just play as we do.

Speaker 1:

Very cool. We've spent uh over an hour already. Um, can you tell us briefly about your new company and, if you would like people to get in touch with you, how they could do so?

Speaker 3:

Okay, so I've just created a new brokerage. This is me being independent and going on my own. I've hired a? Uh underwriter who is, as I mentioned earlier, absolutely an incredible amount of experience, which is uh, hugely helpful for me and for all the realtor partners and for all the clients that are going to be in place. Um, I'm looking to hire new agents that are wanting to come on and learn a more vulnerable, I think, method Um and a and I don't want to say wholesome as a word, but a uh a method of brokering where they can be their authentic selves and they can still find success within their way.

Speaker 1:

Nice.

Speaker 3:

So, uh, it's called insight mortgage um insight financeca. So I N S I G H T financeca and, uh, for me you can. You can reach me at 250 859 2100. I love that number, um, and you can also reach me at ash at insight financeca.

Speaker 1:

Okay, We'll put that in the show notes. So if people are driving, we don't want you to you know, try to write that down right this second, but it will be in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

I don't want to pay those medical bills, no no, anyways, uh, ash, it's been great talking to you. I could I said last week or the week before, whenever that was that I could talk to you for hours and uh, I feel it's productive and and uh, very beneficial for me to pick your brain and, uh, I've really enjoyed getting to know you for the last three and a half hours.

Speaker 3:

Hey, thanks for having me on. Okay, I appreciate this.

Speaker 2:

You've been listening to. I love Kelowna. We love where we live, and how can you not, with all the provincial parks, pine forest, vineyards, orchards, mountains? On each show we have in depth, intimate conversations with entrepreneurs, execs, thought leaders and creatives all that make up Kelowna. You can support the show, so we can keep producing, by going to paypalme, slash luke minkus, and make sure to visit the official website at I love Kelownabuzzsproutcom. We hope you've gotten some useful and practical information from the show and we hope you had some fun along the way. We'll be back soon. Until then, this is I love Kelowna signing off.